[vlc-devel] [RFC] #2106: RTP streaming confusing in Qt intf

Marian Ďurkovič md at bts.sk
Thu Sep 25 11:10:37 CEST 2008

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 10:47:13AM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:46:45 +0200, "Marian Ďurkovič" <md at bts.sk> wrote:
> > stream_out_standard debug: extension -> mux=(null)
> > stream_out_standard error: no mux specified or found by extension
> > main warning: no sout stream module matching "std" could be loaded
> > 
> > So indeed, VLC is (and ever was) based around using TS for network
> > streaming
> > - and now when the GUI doesn't provide it as default it fails.
> That's a completely different story here. That is clearly a bug, as it will
> NEVER work. HTTP cannot work without a mux, at the very least "raw".

Fine, agreed at least on this one. So let's use TS as default to be
consistent with earlier releases.

> RTP is a mux, and the non-enabling of TS by default is quite consistent
> with the switch from the hackish RTP access/access_output to the proper RTP
> demux/stream_output. And with RTP, you simply do have cases that only work
> with TS (although they could be made to work with it), cases that only work
> without TS, cases that work with both.

Agreed here. But why do you think IP mux (i.e. RAW) is more sane default
than TS? It's user experience what matters here, and you already stated that
streaming panel is overly complex for average user.

The usage scenario here with VLC-0.8.6 and before was this:
- on host A, fire up streaming, check RTP and provide multicast IP address
- on hosts B..X click Open, check RTP and provide the same IP address

This is very straighforward, intuitive and non-experienced user manages
this in 30 seconds.

Now with 0.9.2 - IP muxing is the default and it needs SDP. How many users
know what SDP is? And how many know how to export it e.g. via HTTP?
Do they know they have to use Open->HTTP on the client when they're streaming
RTP from the server? Is that intuitive? And what if the stream starts failing
after 2 hours due to buffer underruns just because it goes via live555 without
clock synchro?

OK, they could manually select TS mux. Do they know what a mux is and which
one is the right one amongst all those choices?

So the resume is: with 0.8.6 RTP "just worked" and all the user needed to
know was one parameter - IP address. If they selected RTP on server side,
they also selected RTP on client side. Everyone could easily handle that, and
that's IMHO the usage case for this GUI. With TS mux as default, noone is
stopping experienced users to select any other mux they need.

    With kind regards,


----                                                                  ----
----   Marian Ďurkovič                       network  manager         ----
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